Curse

bungusmaximus · Dec 06, 2007, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

but they got owned by the mud and stuff in no-man's land in ww1 lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!1

The tiger tanks he talks about are WOII exclusively. In WOI tanks were only just invented, they usually weren' t more then a huge tin can with a barrel sticking out. They did get stuck in trenches a lot indeed.
Poisoned gas when the wind is blowing the wrong way is also a good example of the brilliant warfare that characterized WOI :P

RhanoctJocosa · Dec 06, 2007, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

You need [skill]Flurry[/skill]

o cool i've been using

[skill]Frenzy[/skill] [skill]Illusionary Weaponry[/skill] [skill]Rush[/skill] but i can see how flurry is good!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

The tiger tanks he talks about are WOII exclusively. In WOI tanks were only just invented, they usually weren' t more then a huge tin can with a barrel sticking out. They did get stuck in trenches a lot indeed.
Poisoned gas when the wind is blowing the wrong way is also a good example of the brilliant warfare that characterized WOI :P

ah, right. i was talking about tanks in general.

mr_stealth · Dec 06, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

"Tank" doesn't have to mean having your entire skillbar devoted to defensive skills. Having a warrior take a defensive skill or two isn't hurting his DPS any more than asking an ele to take a ward. The ward might help several party members, but a warrior setup with a bit more survivability is much better for grouping up a mob so that ele can kill them faster.

The problem is that most people just don't understand anything beyond "C+space, followed by zomgwtfpwn." This goes for the entire party, not just the warriors. Whether it be a warrior that pulls a mob without being ahead of the party enough to not draw them into the backline, or a necro that feels he must get in the first shot of any fight(this guy normally blames the warrior for any problems he causes). Playing a tank (I see "tank" as more of a playstyle vs a build) requires an intelligent assessment of the situation by the tank on how to take on a mob, and a certain level of cooperation from the rest of the party to let the tank do what he can to make their roles more effective. Most parties I've seen use AoE of some sort (ele, splinter/barrage, SS, minion bomber) as a large part of their damage, and a warrior that know's how to/and is allowed to gather the enemy into a group makes AoE much more effective and gets the job done faster.

kobey · Dec 06, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Think it really depends on how people define 'tank'. The word itself seems to suggest 'standing there and getting hit only'.

I agree with adding a skill or 2 defensive skills such as "Watch Yourself". It helps the entire party without adding any sort of burden or slows the team down.

I bring a charging skill such as enraging charge to run ahead of the party into the mobs so that the mobs will more likely target me first.

If thats the definition of 'tank', then yeah, it sounds ok. But if tank = getting hit, then NOOOOOOOO.

cebalrai · Dec 06, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

85% or more of people who play "tanks" don't know how to do it effectively. It's more than your skill bar. It's about drawing aggro, keeping it, and helping the rest of your team roll off skills with minimal interruption.

Most people think tanking is just downloading a wammo template off pvx and then attacking the nearest target. In this all too frequent case, the tank ends up contributing little to the group. So they get a bad name often times.

I'll take a skilled tank player in my party any day.

Incidentally, the only tank I play is a R/W stance tank degen spreader. So keep in mind you don't necessarily need a wammo or W/E to pull it off.

Rocky Raccoon · Dec 06, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Never heard of a warrior being useless in PVE only assassins, memsers and rangers.

Any profession played in PvE is not useless if you know how to play them. Many times my r/mo is the last survivor and can res the team back to continue, hardly what I call useless.

Olim Chill · Dec 06, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

^Not surprising at all. Ranger is one of the most useful professions. Period.

OP: Proper and timely tanking is never a bad thing.

Fried Tech · Dec 06, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

/Clap Thanks For saying what it's true (and no thats not sarcasm).

Personally I used to tank for fow alot, however later I realised it was way too boring and so I jumped to the real thing. IMO all fow/uw groups that require a warrior to just tank are all = FAIL!

- Ganni

/agree. the only time that i have seen a tank in FoW/UW is when its an obiflesh ele for the 4 horsemen quest. And its me running the obi build so
fail=never. unless im with an exceptionaly crappy pug

System_Crush · Dec 06, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Thing is, there is NO area in game were tanking is necessary.
Warrior always contributes more by dealing damage.

And there are better ways to cover more damage than warriors, but a hell'uv a lot worse too.

IM(I)O [skill=text]Unsteady Ground[/skill] & [skill=text]Eruption[/skill] prevents more damage than a warrior tank does;

I agree warriors are great at tanking, there is a few tricks that let them stay alive longer than anyone else; but as mobs always go for the softest target that is utterly useless in PvE and in PvP it's a waste of time as its not long enough to make people rage quit.

I prefer to have a daze/interrupt disabler and a physical disabler with blind/wards and/or knockdown as their ability to save the monks energy is greater than that of a warrior.

However I am still looking for a damage prevention build through spammable knock down on a hammer warrior. A way to speed up [skill=text]Earth shaker[/skill] for example, any1 know one?

bungusmaximus · Dec 06, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

However I am still looking for a damage prevention build through spammable knock down on a hammer warrior. A way to speed up [skill=text]Earth shaker[/skill] for example, any1 know one?

[wiki]enduring harmony[/wiki]+[wiki]"For Great Justice!"[/wiki]

or

[wiki]weapon of fury[/wiki] on a support char.

czincz · Dec 06, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

However I am still looking for a damage prevention build through spammable knock down on a hammer warrior. A way to speed up [skill=text]Earth shaker[/skill] for example, any1 know one?

Earth Shaker [E]
Crude Swing
Whirlwind Attack
For Great Justice
Enraging Charge

Tyla · Dec 06, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Never heard of a warrior being useless in PVE only assassins, memsers and rangers.

failed post - mesmers FTW in pve, they always make my pve party ten times better shut-down wise.
assassins, again critical agility+ms/db spam - can also carry shutdowns and whatnot and go gimmick weaponry with crit.
rangers...you kidding me? they are the most flexible profession you can ask for

kobey · Dec 06, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

I agree warriors are great at tanking, there is a few tricks that let them stay alive longer than anyone else; but as mobs always go for the softest target that is utterly useless in PvE and in PvP it's a waste of time as its not long enough to make people rage quit.

The job of a tank is to draw all attention of the mobs away from the other party members ie usually, done by the rest of the party standing outside of the tank's aggro circle, and only goes in to attack when the mobs are fixed on the tank. And man, this takes time.

There are few places that requires this. And I agree, the only time i run a tank, is when I am dealing with the 4 horsemen quest, with a Ele obs tank. I brought arcane mimicry, so i can steal my friend's ursan

at least i am not useless for the other parts of the run.

BLOODGOAT · Dec 06, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I personally like tanks when they can manage to ball up the aggro tightly and efficiently. It makes the nuking process a lot quicker.

Quaker · Dec 06, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Tanks are fine. It's just another way to do things. However, I think tanks are really only needed in a few places, otherwise they just slow things down.

For example, I joined a PUG as a Mesmer a while ago (just for grins), to do some quest or mission (I forget which) that I had done before with just H&H. Naturally, when we attacked the first group of baddies I went forward to do some usual Mesmer stuff. The leader of the group told me to "stay back" so the tank wouldn't break agro - which is true enough, but the enemies were not that great that just plain old hack&slash wouldn't take care of them. At any rate, being the "team player" I am, I stayed back from then on and it took at least twice as long as usual to do the quest/mission with all the waiting for the bonder, waiting for the tank to enchant himself and slowly walk toward the mobs, and waiting for the casters to finally kill stuff.

Crom The Pale · Dec 06, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

There is nothing wrong with tanks, they simply are not the most efficient means of playing anymore.

It has been said before, tanks used to be the fasted way to pull a mob and kill it with massive AoE dmg. Now people can destroy mobs so quickly that its actually faster to just let the War kill rather than stand still and absorb mass damage.

That being said the Tank + AoE method may still be the safest means of completing a quest/mission on normal mode for those that are less skilled at the more complex skill bars and party layouts.

Skuld · Dec 06, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Who says they're "useless"? Of course they're useful, the general gripe is that the party slot could be put to better use with a different character.

Snow Bunny · Dec 06, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Trex

I use a warrior for tanking in UW and FoW etc... and they seem to be in high demand when a party goes to one of these, how come so many feel they're useless?

They're useless because with Enfeeble, Prot Spirit, and Aegis, I can achieve the same party control, but have more firepower.

Croco Clouds · Dec 06, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Without the tank, those ele/monks are ganged in FoW

Krazax · Dec 06, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Trex

I use a warrior for tanking in UW and FoW etc... and they seem to be in high demand when a party goes to one of these, how come so many feel they're useless?

Because Warrior stances are for Monks and other squishies. Seriously, that's why you have Frenzied Defense with no req, and why all the dmg reduction stances are in Tactics instead of Strength.

If Anet really wanted Warriors to REALLY BE TANKS, they'd make Tactics the prime Req for Warriors.

Couldn't be any clearer.